Mark E. Woodsum
11/06/2005
10:09 PM

Just to add to my points below, though I am in agreement with Jon and David’s views with regard to the situation, I do not believe that anyone should take the trip who is not completely comfortable with it. Nor should anyone feel pressured into the trip (to keep the numbers up), or even be “talked’ into it if they are clearly anxious about it. While the volatility in the region actually adds to my interest in going there (in order to experience what the local population is going through - what they are experiencing spiritually, emotionally, and practically in their daily lives), I certainly understand that mine is likely to be a minority view. Finally, the most important thing, in my view, is not the trip, but the experience of visiting these incredibly spiritual sites in fellowship with this incredibly spiritual group. I believe that in the sharing of the experience, the spiritual impact on us all will be enhanced immeasurably. Again, I am committed to the trip as it is, in a revised format, or, if cancelled, I will eagerly await the next opportunity! David, thanks for the thoughtful forum and good luck sorting all of this out!

Steve Duerksen
11/05/2005
04:15 AM

Just to clarify my earlier remark, where I said "I'm very seriously hoping that a different itinerary will emerge". I only meant that in the context of IF the original trip must be canceled. I ABSOLUTELY trust David's leadership, and support my wife Gail going on the ORIGINAL trip as planned. Please just go ahead, and have a wonderful spiritual and educational experience.

Jon Olson
11/04/2005
03:28 PM

I lived two years in Sierra Leone, West Africa during which time there was a military coup. I was also in Nigeria for three months durng a civil war. Three years ago, I spent a week in Cuba. Last summer I was in London, a couple of days before and after the tube bombings. I was always aware of my surroundings and I tried to blend in as much as possible. But I never felt that I was in any danger. When I read the papers and watched the T.V. news, however, the situation was reported to be much worse than it was. I understand the concern of others and I can support them, but I feel it is always worse than what the media leads us to believe. I would like to continue planning for the trip. but I would also support an alternative trip to nearby countries.

Ron Baard
11/04/2005
11:39 AM

I have been excited about making this trip with my colleague David and BTS students and friends, but after reviewing everything, it seems like a time when "safety first" is definitely the rule of the day. Can we seriously explore other venues for the trip in the time we have remaining? My sense is the group would be very flexible with this, but I could be wrong. What would be the response to a similar type of trip in January to safer location abroad? I'm sure David has some possibilities - can we talk over this option as a group? Thanks, David, for extablishing this Bulletin Board - most appreciated. Let's keep talking.

David Trobisch
11/04/2005
11:20 AM

I share Mark's notion. Once you are there everything looks different and usually it is very easy to avoid danger. Many of my friends from Germany stopped coming to visit us in Maine (or still need strong encouragement) because the US is under terrorist attack. I am presently finding out what it would cost us to insure the trip and will get back to you. In case the insurance company thinks the risk is too high and they do not want to insure it or the state department issues a travel warning for Syria I would not want to go.

Gail Holman
11/03/2005
12:12 PM

I am getting the impression from what is happening between Syria and our nation that this might not be the safest time to travel there. Even if we all sign waivers releasing BTS of responsibilities for our travel it would not reflect well on the seminary if something should happen. As a participant who was counting on this course for a degree requirement I would like to suggest we go somewhere else. Would anyone be interested in a trip to Israel, Egypt, Jordan or Greece? Would David be willing to put something together in so short a peroid of time? Basically, if David is willing to organize it. I'd go anywhere.

Mark E. Woodsum
11/03/2005
10:38 AM

I understand everyone’s concerns and they are certainly legitimate. As the CEO of a company, I understand the liability issues faced by BTS, though a waiver should get around that matter, and there is still the safety issue regardless of waivers, and even though everyone involved is clearly mature enough to make these sorts of decisions, they may lack the international expertise to do so intelligently. My take is this: I have spent the past 25 years intimately involved with that part of the world and with similar events and situations such as this one in other countries. First in a counter-terrorist role with the Department of Defense, next as a diplomat with the Department of State (also focusing on terrorist issues), and now as the CEO of an international company (trying to avoid terrorist issues!). In all of these positions I have had to visit areas in the midst of terrorist issues, and equally frightening non-terrorist issues (like a plague in India five years ago), on a regular basis and have always found that the situation on the ground is never anything like what is portrayed in the press and in other media outlets. These issues generally affect a very small part of a country or city and life in these regions tends to move on with a lot of normalcy. For example, I was in Surabaya, Indonesian, (the second largest city in Indonesia and the economic capital and its major port) during the worst riots there in 30 years during the dissolution of a dictatorship that had lasted there for some 30 years. In my hotel room, I would watch CNN and it would appear that the entire city was on fire and people rioting everywhere. Yet I was there for four days and never saw a fire, a riot, or any violence at all (though there were some great deals on fake Rolex watches at every street corner!). As many of you probably know, there were a number of bombings throughout New Delhi, India, over the weekend (attributed to the terrorist fighting for Kashmiri independence). Our Senior Vice President of Operations was scheduled to fly to New Delhi the very next day. Not only did he still go, but he has found the city to be perfectly safe and not much different than previous trips. All that being said, international travel to regions such as Syria is always dangerous and always needs to be undertaken with caution. Moreover, when in country, everyone needs to be continually aware of his or her surroundings and avoid the traps that put Americans at risk overseas (e.g. traveling alone, being out in the evening in less crowed areas, being around sites/locations that would attract terrorists, wearing expensive clothing/jewelry, “looking” like a tourist, etc.). Foreigners that have run into trouble overseas (being robbed, kidnapped, molested, etc.), have almost always been doing something that, in hindsight, was clearly a mistake. I am still open to the trip as planned, would still go if the itinerary were modified to accommodate the concerns of the group at large, and would certainly understand if it were cancelled. From prior messages posted here, it seems unlikely that David will get enough people at this point, with the current itinerary, to make the trip financially viable. Mark E. Woodsum Chief Executive Officer The Foreside Company

Judith Mann
11/03/2005
08:46 AM

Travel involves risk. If anything,I think the fact that Syria is now front page news increases the relative safety of this trip. Also,I would be willing to sign a release stating that BTS would not be held in any way responsible for any injury I may incur. That said, perhaps we should revisit the border crossings (why go to Lebanon at all?) In and out of Amman might be simpler, with a reconfigured itinerary that sends us north to Syria first.

Rosemary Ananis
11/03/2005
06:54 AM

2,000 Syrians demonstrating in front of the U.S. embassy in Damascus sounds a bit frightening to me. Is there an alternative itinerary for a trip?

Steve Duerksen
11/03/2005
04:46 AM

http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/info/info_1300.html When my wife Gail Holman began getting excited about this trip (some time ago) I surfed up the warning (above URL) that North Korea, Cuba, Syria, Sudan, Iran and Libya are considered by "Section 306 of the Enhanced Border Security and Visa Reform Act of 2002 (EBSVRA)" to be "state sponsors of terrorism". Trusting David and his experience, I only teased Gail about this. It's all a bit more serious now. I can easily imagine that President George Bush will be looking to revive his sinking domestic image, via foreign distraction. Sigh. I'm very seriously hoping that a different itinerary will emerge, and my dear wife will be somehow able to experience the Middle East, including ancient sites but especially, the Muslim people.

Glenn Miller
11/2/2005

Clearly, we have some real liability in the case of injury. As you will recall, this was why we abandoned the Israel trip, which was slated to be our first trip. Frankly, whatever the legal implications, my deepest worry is the effect of a student being injured in the class on the seminary and on recruitment.. Since this is an academic course, it would be an injury while actually attending classes and not just an injury on a seminary sponsored activity. As this heats up, I would be very cautious. An incident could be very expensive. Syria may be very dangerous territory in January. American forces are operating near the Syrian border, and I have little doubt that we will violate Syrian space in support of our troops. This seems to me, at least, to be a great risk that the UN problem. The presence of American troops on Syrian soil would be the occasion for very serious riots. So, I would wonder whether this would not be a good one to cancel. Glenn T. Miller Academic Dean Bangor Theological Seminary

David Trobisch
11/2/2005

The UN resolution concerning Syria may have serious implications on the planned trip to Syria. It seems to me our window of opportunity to go to the Middle East is closing fast. Please check out the links on my webpage below and give me your advice.