David's
personal favorites may get his stamp of approval. This is very subjective. 
Return
to Homepage
[If you just submitted your entry and cannot
see it, click on the menu: View / Refresh. Or press F5. Sometimes it may take a
few minutes until your entry is visible.]
David's
personal favorites may get his stamp of approval. This is very subjective.
Passages that seem significant to the contents of the course are marked:
Name: Kathy
Reference: Romans 4:11; I Cor 9:2; 2 Tim 2:19
Quote: 6:14-15 Thecla replied, Grant me only the seal of Christ, and no temptation shall affect me. Paul answered, Thecla, wait with patience, and you shall receive the gift of Christ.
I find Thecla's use of the "seal of Christ" inconsistent with the way it is used in the NT passages referenced above. The most jarring part for me is that she seems to be under the impression that Paul is in such a position of authority to be able to grant her this seal (or by implication, deny it.) Is the use of this phrase contrary to the way it is used elsewhere in the NT that is, directly granted by God? Or is this more in keeping with the use of sealed as in some baptismal rites...the bishop consecrates the oil of Chrism..."Eternal Father...we pray you to consecrate this oil, that those who are sealed with it may share in the royal priesthood of Jesus Christ"?
Name: Sue Kaplan
Reference: Acts 8:17
Quote: 6:14 - Thecla replied, Grant me only the seal of Christ, and no temptation shall affect me.
the seal of Christ could be equated with the laying on of hands from Acts 8, Also see Acts 19:5-6 regarding baptistm and the receiving of the Holy Spirit through the Apostles laying on of hands
Name: Sue Kaplan
Reference:
Quote: 6:14 - Thecla replied, Grant me only the seal of Christ, and no temptation shall affect me.
Name: Erza
Reference: Acts 15:36-41
Quote: Chpt 1:1-2 When Paul went up to Iconium, after his flight from Antioch, Demas and Hermogenes became his companions, who were then full of hypocrisy. But Paul looking only at the gooddess of God, did them no harm, but loved them greatly.
The Acts of Paul and Thecla presents to us a different Paul than the one we know in the New Testament scriptures. The Paul that we know in NT was always critical of the people who lived a double standard life. A good example, Paul was very critical with the change of behaviour of Peter when he was alone with gentiles, and change the behaviour when he was with another Apostle.In the book of Act, Paul had to part ways with his two companions Banarbas and James who disagreed with him in many ways for the sake of the gospel.
Name: David G
Reference: 2 Tim 2: 17:18
Quote: 3:5 While we at the same time will teach her, that the resurrection which he speaks of is already come, and consists in our having children; and that we then arose again, when we came to the knowledge of God.
This is spoken by Demas and Hermogenes to Thamyris when they are seeking to bring Paul before the governor and undermine Paul's teaching on the resurrection to Thecla. This gives us additional information on the false teaching about the resurrection already having taken place mentioned in 2 Tim 2:17-18. In 2 Tim it is said that this teaching will spread like gangrene and destroy the faith of some. Demas and Hermogenes are doing exactly that in the passage in Acts where they are seeking to destroy the faith of Thecla. The false teaching appears to be that the resurrection is equated to the birth of children we have and also to when we came to a knowledge of God. On a more general note there are quite a few parallels between Acts of P&T and 2 Tim. Both Demas and Hermogenes are mentioned in separate verses as having deserted Paul. Onesiphorus is mentioned in a good light and Titus is named. There is an bad Alexander in 2 Tim as well - Alexander the metal worker is said to have done a great deal of harm. The place names are also there Antioch, Iconium and Lystra together with persecutions at these places. Paul talks about being delivered from a lion's mouth.
Name: Michael Kasevich
Reference: 1Timothy 4:7
Quote: Then the people set fire to the pile; though the flame was exceeding large, it did not touch her, for God
1 Timothy 4:7 (New American Standard Bible) “ But have nothing to do with worldly fables fit only for old women On the other hand, discipline yourself for the purpose of godliness; “ We are instructed not to be part of demonic endeavors or “old wives tales”. There are many places in Thecla that demonstrates such language . Acts of Paul and Thecla: 5:15-16 5:15 Then the people set fire to the pile; though the flame was exceeding large, it did not touch her, for God took compassion on her, and caused a great eruption from the earth beneath, and a cloud from above to pour down great quantities of rain and hail; 5:16 Insomuch that by the rupture of the earth, very many were in great danger, and some were killed, the fire was extinguished, and Thecla was preserved. . 7:5 Then she laid hold on Alexander, tore his coat, and took his crown off his head, and made him appear ridiculous before all the people.7:6 But Alexander, partly as he loved her, and partly being ashamed of what had been done, led her to the governor, and upon her confession of what she had done, he condemned her to be thrown among the beasts. These are few examples of how a witch was looked at during the Salem Witch trial here in America. In the text of Thecla there are too many to post here today. The New Testament is full of places that warns us not to but into things that are out of the ordinary ways of God. We are instructed to discipline ourselves and not glamorize the oddities of life. My question is, by actions we can come to the conclusion that Thecla possessed supernatural powers, which side of the spiritual realm did these powers come from?
Name: Pam
Reference: Acts 20:9
Quote: Ch.2, v. 1 -- 3: Thecla... sat at a certain window in her house. From whence, ... she both night and day heard Paul's sermons ... Nor would she depart from the window...
This suggests that, unlike Eutychus, it was possible for some people to sit in a window listening to Paul for DAYS without falling out of the window.
Name: Pam Nourse
Reference: 1 Cor 7:7--8; Philippians 4:3
Quote: Ch. 1, v. 16 -- Blessed are they who have wives, as though they had them not; for they shall be made angels of God
In 1 Corinthians, Paul urges all who are not married to remain single, and wishes that all could be as he himself is. However, it has been suggested that the phrase "true yokefellow" which he uses in Philippians to address one of the recipients of the letter would be applied when addressing one's spouse. This raises the possibility that Paul was, in fact, married but advocating celibacy. This could be in agreement with the preaching in Acts of Paul and Thecla, urging those who have wives to behave as if they had them not.
Name: Gary
Reference: Acts, 2Tim, Col., Phlm
Quote: Versus 1:1,4-5, 12-22
Noting the literary genre of Acts of Paul and Thecla, this is neither a letter nor correspondence. It reads more like an historical retelling. What is of interest are the names and places mentioned within the text and where else they appear in the New Testament. For the most part, they appear in the Deutero-Pauline corpus and in Acts-- possibly dated mid-60 C.E. to mid-80 C.E. What the Acts of Paul and Thecla does then is help us trace Paul’s movement and the context of the society wherein the events transpire. We can trace Paul to Iconium in Acts and 2 Tim: NRS Acts 13:51 So they shook the dust off their feet in protest against them, and went to Iconium. NRS Acts 14:1 The same thing occurred in Iconium, where Paul and Barnabas went into the Jewish synagogue and spoke in such a way that a great number of both Jews and Greeks became believers. NRS Acts 14:19 But Jews came there from Antioch and Iconium and won over the crowds. Then they stoned Paul and dragged him out of the city, supposing that he was dead. NRS Acts 14:20 But when the disciples surrounded him, he got up and went into the city. The next day he went on with Barnabas to Derbe. NRS Acts 14:21 After they had proclaimed the good news to that city and had made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, then on to Iconium and Antioch. NRS Acts 16:1-2 Paul went on also to Derbe and to Lystra, where there was a disciple named Timothy, the son of a Jewish woman who was a believer; but his father was a Greek. He was well spoken of by the believers in Lystra and Iconium. (Paul leaves to see Timothy) If you take the time to read what comes before the sighted text and what comes after, you get a better idea of the events that were occurring. The events in Acts of Paul and Thecla resemble what Paul endured…the social status of a family was probably linked to their participation in the cultic practices of the various religions in the area. Paul’s message would have inflamed a family if one member adopted his philosophy. Thus the story of Thecla fits a pattern. Tracing Paul’s journey from Acts, using a map, you get a sense of the distance and time required to move about the landscape. As for the names, Titus is mentioned frequently--too many to list--in the Pauline corpus and in Acts of Paul and Thecla, creating another timeline connection. Hermogenes is found in: NRS 2 Timothy 1:15 You are aware that all who are in Asia have turned away from me, including Phygelus and Hermogenes. Demas’ relation to Paul is traced from being in his good graces to deserting him: NRS Colossians 4:14 Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas greet you NRS Philemon 1:24 and so do Mark, Aristarchus, Demas, and Luke, my fellow workers. NRS Colossians 4:14 Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas greet you.(is this the same Luke of the Gospel and possible author of Acts?) NRS 2 Timothy 4:10 for Demas, in love with this present world, has deserted me and gone to Thessalonica; Crescens has gone to Galatia, Titus to Dalmatia. Onesiphorus is found mentioned in: NRS 2 Timothy 1:16 May the Lord grant mercy to the household of Onesiphorus, because he often refreshed me and was not ashamed of my chain; This is all fun and dandy, but it’s the dating of these texts and possible authorship that concern me. Especially when we look at the versus in Acts of Paul and Thecla that resemble the beatitudes in their structure (1:12-22). The Gospel they resemble is Matthew, which probably dates to the later part of the first century. My question here also wants to know the Greek word the writer of Acts of Paul and Thecla used. Is it the same as in Matthew (I would have place the Greek word here, but it will not copy from my computer!) So who lifted material from whom? Did Paul have time to do the travels mentioned above, or did his followers use his name to write about him? Is Acts of Paul and Thecla important in this respect?
Name: Sue B.
Reference: Matthew 26:14-15 14Judas Iscariot [a] was one of the twelve disciples. He went to the chief priests 15and asked, "How much will you give me if I help you arrest Jesus?" They paid Judas thirty silver coins,
Quote: 2:15 "I promise to give you a considerable sum, if you will give me a just account of him; for I am the chief person of this city."
I was particularly struck by the actions of the "lesser characters" in this reading. Demas and Hermogenes were known by Paul to
be of less than upright heart; nevertheless, Paul allowed them to travel with him and "loved them greatly." And yet we see how very little Thamyris needed to provide(splendid entertainment, wine and rich provision)to encourage Demas and Hermogenes to betray Paul. For Judas, it necessitated but a mere handful of coins to betray the man with whom he had traveled - a man who was also a voice in the wilderness. Jesus accepted his betrayal with dignity - as did Paul when he gave an accounting of Christian doctrines.
Name: Zareen
Reference: Mt 17.14-21
Quote: Jesus Heals a Young Boy by the Spirit...animal in arena nearly devours Thecla but goes calm
The animal is nearly tamed by Thecla.... not devouring her..--happening twice..as the boy's evil spirit leaves him thanks to Jesus...making a miracle this way. ALSO.....Thecla disappears into the cave as in the gospel of the Virgin in a Nag Hammadi version of the Gospel of Mary..a woman is saved by disappearing into a cave..was it Mary once doing this? Similarity to Thecla's ending experience is remarkable. In an Old Testament story with Rehab the cat and mouse game is similar...the men coming to save the town and the woman helping as a go between (not sure where this is, but the similarity is clear)..of Course thecla is a horse of a different color to Rehab but the idea is the same...just no rope to climb out the window(?). Though it is true the reference to the chains is similar to the reference to the chains that broke off of Peter in jail when the angel appeared to him letting him out the door..or to Paul when the earthquake set him free from prison (on an island?). Thecla caressing Paul's chains reminded me of this. Then they both broke free from their different bondages in different ways. The hatred of Paul and Thecla by townspeople is similar to Jesus on the run..in all the gospels..his fleeing from --it often seems--authority..as He is giving the Word and this threatens authority. Even after his baptism he flees as after Thecla's acceptance of Paul through the window and her acceptance of Christ as her baptism first...before the real water she encounters...before she believes she will encounter death. The interweaving of these two Paul and Thecla is similar to the disciples and Christ before his horrid journey to the cross. In Thecla's case though her gentleness is quite different than the disciples steadfastness and devotion to Christ..she is a weak, whimper of a thing strong inside with devotion..the disciples are strong in and out side their bodies..Yet Thecla proves somewhat different than we would believe surprizing us each time with a miracle of God and above,as Christ, as she survives her tortures and persecutions unparalleled in descriptions except maybe in the early found gospels. Perhaps Christ's agonizing journey in His last days --and His knowledge of His upcoming death throughout the gospels ( to Peter) can be compared to the tortures and persecutions of Paul and Thecla?
Name: Judy
Reference: Mt5:8, I Cor. 7:29 and 7:34
Quote: 1:12 Blessed are the pur in heart, for they shall see God. Also 1:16 Blessed are they who have wives, as though they had them not; for they shall be made angels of God.
The note for the St Pachomius library edition states "..extreme praise of celebacy found in "The Acts Of Paul and Thecla"
language often associated with certain Gnostic groups. 1:12 is identical to Mt 5:8. I Cor.&:29 "..let those who have wives live as though they had none." This is very similar to Paul and Thecla 1:16.
It seems that the author of Paul and Thecla took NT passages that suited the Gnostic view of celebacy and detachment from worldy pleasures to support this view as the way to God.
Also I COR.34 "..and the unmarried woman or girl is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit." This seems to be the theme for the whole story of Thecla.
Name: Debi
Reference: Steve's comment
Quote: "...so that she was ninety years old when the Lord translated her."--11:15
I was wondering about Thecla's death also, but my question was more about the wording of that verse I've quoted: Does it mean "translated" in the way we think about Enoch or Elijah--not actually dying but being taken to heaven without death--or is it just the word that was used to mean her death?
Name: Debi
Reference: Steve's comment
Quote: "...so that she was ninety years old when the Lord translated her."--11:15
I was wondering about Thecla's death also, but my question was more about the wording of that verse I've quoted: Does it mean "translated" in the way we think about Enoch or Elijah--not actually dying but being taken to heaven without death--or is it just the word that was used to mean her death?
Name: Eric Rustad
Reference: I Timothy 4:1-3
Quote: "Blessed are they who have wives, as though they had them not" (1:16)
A number of commentators suggest that the only passages in the Acts of Paul and Thecla that "explicitly" condemn marriage (the Encratite heresy) are 2:16 and 4:2 (e.g., N. Redington and Nancy A. Carter). They not that the speaker of these passages is not Paul, but an adversary. Paul is however the speaker in 1:16, which I would construe as anti-marriage. If so, this depiction of Paul is at odds with the Paul of I Timothy. The writer of I Timothy rejects the acesticism of the early Christian "women's movement." "Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will renounce the faith by paying attention to deceitful spirits and teaching of demons....They forbid marriage and demand abstinence from foods, which God created to be received...." The contrast reveals something about early Christian relations between men and women, including gender-determined disagreements about the message of Scripture. The subtitle of The Acts of Paul and Thecla claims she is "Equal to the Apostles." Yet, if Thecla is in fact representative of early Christian feminism (cf. Nancy A. Carter; and I don't think there need be anything anachronistic about applying this modern term to Biblical times), what does it say that Thecla's salvation is tied entirely to chastity, and not to other categories of virtue? Is it any wonder that the I Timothy was sanctioned and The Acts of Paul and THecla was not? Thecla is a one-dimensional saint--of a type of sainthood, in the end, subject to a one-dimensional understanding of women, and perhaps to an underlying misogyny. I Timothy helps to correct that.
Name: Debi
Reference: I Corinthians 7: 25-40
Quote: "...he deprives young men of their (intended) wives, and virgins of their (intended) husbands, by teaching, There can be no future resurrection, unless ye continue in chastity, and do not defile your flesh."--2:16
If there is anything that I understand from reading the Acts of Paul and Thecla it is how easy it is for people to twist and missunderstand a certain teaching. I couldn’t help but think of Paul’s words in I Corinthians 7: 25-40 while looking at the Acts 2:14, 16. Thamyris is only getting one part of Paul’s teaching. Paul himself states that he is giving his opinion about whether individuals should marry or not, “not to lay any restraint upon you, but to promote good order and to secure your undivided devotion to the Lord” (I Cor. 7:35). I couldn’t see anywhere that Paul stated anything about “no future resurrection, unless ye continue in chastity, and do not defile your flesh” (the Acts 2:16). Everything that Paul states in I Corinthians 7 makes practical sense: If you’re married, you attention is on your spouse and their care. If you are single, you can concentrate on the things of God. It’s just too bad for Thamyris that his betrothed had decided it was better for her to concentrate on the things of God and not on him.
Name: Ellen Ryan
Reference: John 11:23-26
Quote: 1:11 Then Paul went into the house of Onesiphorus, and here was great joy among the family on that account: and they employed themselves in prayer, breaking of bread, and hearing Paul preach the word of God concerning the temperance and the resurrection... AND 2:16 Demos and Hermogenes replied, We cannot tell so exactly who he is; but this we know, that he deprives young men of their (intended) wives, and virgins of their (intended) husbands, by teaching, There can be no future resurrection, unless ye continue in chastity, and do not defile your flesh. AND 3:5 While we at the same time will teach her, that the resurrection he speaks of is already come, and consists in our having children; and that we then arose again when we came to the knowledge of God. AND 4:2 O governor, I know not whence this man commeth; but he is one who teaches that matrimony is unlawful. Command him therefore to declare before you for what reason he publishes such doctrines. AND 4:6 That God, who is a God of vengence, and who stands in need of nothing but the salvation of his creatures, has sent me to reclaim them from their wickedness and corruptions, for all (sinful) pleasures, and from death; and to persuade them to sin no more.
The interplay of opinions/understandings on what the resurrection is by various parties in Acts of Paul and Thecla sheds additional light on the evident diversity of belief concerning the resurrection in Jesus' time and that of the early Church. In John 11:23-26, Martha evidently already has a belief in the general resurrection at the end of time, but to the best of my knowledge, not all Jews of the time held this belief about resurrection. Similarly, in Acts of Paul and Thecla, there seems to be a possibly general (rather than unique to Demas and Hermogenes) understanding of resurrection as the bringing forth of the next generation. Going back to the passage in John, Jesus tells Martha that HE is the resurrection and asks Martha if she believes this. It's clear that the meaning of the resurrection - or if there is one - is a topic of discussion, rather than a settled matter, in both John's passage and Acts of Paul and Thecla. Interestingly, Paul is quoted as linking "the temperance" with "the resurrection" in Acts of Paul and Thecla (1:11). Paul accepts the resurrection Jesus is quoted as describing to Martha in John 11, but it seems his teaching focuses much more on what this means for how we live our lives in light of this resurrection. I think it's unfortunate that "temperance" is linked so closely to sexual abstinance in most interpretations, since the English word "to temper" means to moderate, to adjust the ingredients within a mixture, to achieve a new balance. If Paul was telling married people to live "chastely" with each other, it may have had something peculiar to do with Paul, but it also follows logically that if Christ is the resurrection, then resurrection is not predicated on bringing forth children, as seems to be at least one belief circulating in the community during Paul's life. At any rate, Acts of Paul and Thecla add to our understanding of the New Testament in providing additional content on the controversy around the meaning of the resurrection at that time.
Name: Steve
Reference: Paul/Thelca
Quote: (5:15) "Then the people set fire to the pile; though the flame was exceedingly large, it did not touch her, for God took compassion on her..."
This theme of being saved from from a "fiery furnace" type of fate reminded me of the story of Daniel's friends; Shadrach,
Meshach and Abednego when an attempt was also made to destroy them with fire. I also thought of Daniel when he was thrown into the lion's den when I read about Thelca's encounter with wild animals when the authorities attempted to kill her. While I must admit that these comparisons don't necessarily assist me in understanding the New Testament, it is somewhat helpful to have the background of Daniel's (and his 3 friends) experience as background when reading the story of Thelca.
Also: I have a question. Thelca is described as a martyr. Don't you have to be killed to be a martyr? At the very end of the story we have this passage (when she was trying to escape the men that were intent on assaulting her) "The blessed Thelca observing, saw the rock opened to as large a degree as that a man might enter in; she did as she was commanded, bravely fled from the vile crew, and went into the rock, which instantly so closed, that there was not any crack visible where it had opened."
I don't read anything here specifically that she was killed. Are we to assume that she was killed by the closing of the rock?
Thoughts, anyone?
Name: Eric Rustd
Reference:
Quote: Structure of text
Extensive parallelism of: (i)Thecla to Paul; (ii) Thamyris to Alexander; (iii) Iconium to Antioch (their "mobs" of men and "choruses" of women and weak and "conflicted" governers); (iv) mothers (Theoclia is bound to an older concept of virtue; Trifina to a new virtue); (v) Thecla's deliverance (from fire, from beasts); (vi) Paul's sojourn in cave to Thecla's in monastery; (vii) Thecla becomes teacher per Paul's model. The point appears to be to equate Thecla and Paul--the "Paul" of women. Focus however is on sexual morality; chastity and sexual virtue as the core value in an Early Christian women's morality. (An, unfortunate, comparison can be made: it reads almost like a "reverse" of deSade's Justine.)
Name: Steve
Reference: 1 Timothy 2:12
Quote: (From Acts/Thelca) Verse 10:4 "Then Thecla arose, and said to Paul, I am going to Iconium. Paul replied to her: Go, teach the word of the Lord.
I just found this interesting (not so much helpful in understanding of the New Testament) so I thought I would comment on it. I find this verse an interesting contrast to what we find at 1 Timothy 2:11-12 when Paul writes: "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." And yet from Acts of Paul and Thelca we find Paul encouraging Thecla to "go and teach." Thoughts, anyone?
DT:
Right on the money. Should women teach? A central theme of the Acts of Paul and
in conflict with some passages in the canonical letters of Paul.